Comments on: Fruits and vegetables don’t prevent cancer http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299 Tue, 11 Apr 2017 23:15:37 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bill Shrapnel http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-706 Bill Shrapnel Sun, 24 Mar 2013 22:02:58 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-706 Hello Steve. Very valid comments. On your research question, it's very difficult to get a grant to research something that might contradict accepted wisdom. A few years ago a high ranking US nutrition researcher was addressing the Australian Atheroscerosis Society arguing that low fat diets weren't beneficial to health and that the focus should be on optimising fat quality. When I spoke to him later he said he had struggled for two decades to get research funding from the NIH: "if it wasn't about low fat, they just weren't interested". Dogma is an big issue, even at these heights. Regards, Bill Hello Steve. Very valid comments. On your research question, it’s very difficult to get a grant to research something that might contradict accepted wisdom. A few years ago a high ranking US nutrition researcher was addressing the Australian Atheroscerosis Society arguing that low fat diets weren’t beneficial to health and that the focus should be on optimising fat quality. When I spoke to him later he said he had struggled for two decades to get research funding from the NIH: “if it wasn’t about low fat, they just weren’t interested”. Dogma is an big issue, even at these heights. Regards, Bill

]]> By: Steve Bergman http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-701 Steve Bergman Sun, 24 Mar 2013 10:00:28 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-701 I've long been annoyed about about the unfounded advice that people get from various sources, including RD's about the value of fruits and vegetables. Aside from outdated claims about reducing cancer risk, we get the line about "rich in phytonutrients". True enough. Plants make a lot of chemicals. But many of them have defensive purposes. Plants do not like getting eaten any more than animals do. We can run from predators. They can't, but still have to protect themselves. To that end they long ago declared chemical warfare upon animals who would eat them. They're literally trying to kill us (with toxins & antinutrients), or at least interfere with our reproduction (with phyto-hormones). We evolve defenses against their toxins/hormones. They evolve new ones. It's the usual evolutionary arms race. Overall, plants in our diets may (or may not) be beneficial to us. It's not a given. It's a question which needs to be studied. But how do you get a research grant to study this when it's "common knowledge" that fruits and vegetables are the very foundation of health? I’ve long been annoyed about about the unfounded advice that people get from various sources, including RD’s about the value of fruits and vegetables. Aside from outdated claims about reducing cancer risk, we get the line about “rich in phytonutrients”. True enough. Plants make a lot of chemicals. But many of them have defensive purposes.

Plants do not like getting eaten any more than animals do. We can run from predators. They can’t, but still have to protect themselves. To that end they long ago declared chemical warfare upon animals who would eat them. They’re literally trying to kill us (with toxins & antinutrients), or at least interfere with our reproduction (with phyto-hormones). We evolve defenses against their toxins/hormones. They evolve new ones. It’s the usual evolutionary arms race.

Overall, plants in our diets may (or may not) be beneficial to us. It’s not a given. It’s a question which needs to be studied. But how do you get a research grant to study this when it’s “common knowledge” that fruits and vegetables are the very foundation of health?

]]> By: Bill Shrapnel http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-595 Bill Shrapnel Sun, 23 Dec 2012 05:21:38 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-595 Hi Robin I totally agree with your comment 'Surely a person who eats a lot of fruit and veggies is on average less likely to ingest/imbibe unhealthy things'. I'm not arguing that fruit and veg are not important. However, many nutritionists' views on fruit, veg and cancer were locked in a more decade ago on the basis of low quality studies. Now that better studies are available, we should base our views and advice on these. And they suggest that fruit and veg intake has little effect on cancer risk. More generally, the links between diet and cancer look pretty weak, with two notable exceptions - alcohol and excessive energy intake leading to obesity. Regards, Bill Hi Robin
I totally agree with your comment ‘Surely a person who eats a lot of fruit and veggies is on average less likely to ingest/imbibe unhealthy things’.
I’m not arguing that fruit and veg are not important. However, many nutritionists’ views on fruit, veg and cancer were locked in a more decade ago on the basis of low quality studies. Now that better studies are available, we should base our views and advice on these. And they suggest that fruit and veg intake has little effect on cancer risk.
More generally, the links between diet and cancer look pretty weak, with two notable exceptions – alcohol and excessive energy intake leading to obesity. Regards, Bill

]]> By: Robin Hoare http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-594 Robin Hoare Sun, 23 Dec 2012 02:14:03 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-594 Taking on board your comments, Bill, there is another way of looking at things. We know that certain foodstuffs/drinks may very well contribute to the risk of cancer. Surely a person who eats a lot of fruit and veggies is on average less likely to ingest/imbibe unhealthy things? Just my two cents' worth. Robin (not a vegetarian!) Taking on board your comments, Bill, there is another way of looking at things.
We know that certain foodstuffs/drinks may very well contribute to the risk of cancer.
Surely a person who eats a lot of fruit and veggies is on average less likely to ingest/imbibe unhealthy things?
Just my two cents’ worth.
Robin (not a vegetarian!)

]]> By: Pamela Holdsworth APD. http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-326 Pamela Holdsworth APD. Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:06:27 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-326 Yes I agree....No matter how good our diet and lifestyle is...our genetics can be our downfall. I guess the upside is that a really good diet/lifstyle that we preach....may give us a 'few more healthy years' in the long run. At least we can hope. I really admire your postings Bill and again THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom and research with us....Pamela Yes I agree….No matter how good our diet and lifestyle is…our genetics can be our downfall. I guess the upside is that a really good diet/lifstyle that we preach….may give us a ‘few more healthy years’ in the long run. At least we can hope. I really admire your postings Bill and again THANK YOU for sharing your wisdom and research with us….Pamela

]]> By: Bill Shrapnel http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-321 Bill Shrapnel Wed, 18 Jul 2012 23:22:52 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-321 Hi Jenna. Yes, apples, pears, grapes - full of sugar but low in nutrients. Sounds like a definition of junk food doesn't it? I guess this is why I argue that we need to be careful about the criteria by which we make judgments about the nutritional quality of carbohydrate-rich foods. There may be various dimensions of goodness that we don't fully understand yet. The EPIC study showed fruits and vegetables were associated with protection against heart disease (Crowe FL et al. Eur Heart J 2011;32:1235) but we just don't know what mechanisms are at play. It might be fibre or polyphenols or potassium or glycaemic index - many fruits have low GIs, or a combination of these. Nutrition doesn't have much black and white but there are many shades of grey. In relation to fruits I don't think their benefits should be overstated - fruits are not 'superfoods', just a part of a healthy diet. My advice to people: 'No day without fruit'. Hi Jenna. Yes, apples, pears, grapes – full of sugar but low in nutrients. Sounds like a definition of junk food doesn’t it? I guess this is why I argue that we need to be careful about the criteria by which we make judgments about the nutritional quality of carbohydrate-rich foods. There may be various dimensions of goodness that we don’t fully understand yet.
The EPIC study showed fruits and vegetables were associated with protection against heart disease (Crowe FL et al. Eur Heart J 2011;32:1235) but we just don’t know what mechanisms are at play. It might be fibre or polyphenols or potassium or glycaemic index – many fruits have low GIs, or a combination of these. Nutrition doesn’t have much black and white but there are many shades of grey.
In relation to fruits I don’t think their benefits should be overstated – fruits are not ‘superfoods’, just a part of a healthy diet.
My advice to people: ‘No day without fruit’.

]]> By: tracy http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-320 tracy Wed, 18 Jul 2012 08:13:13 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-320 I know one person doesn't evidence maketh!!...........but............... Just to say I'm also a dietitian. Last year, at 43 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I lead a blameless existence.loads of fruit and veg, no alcohol, no smoking, slim and do lots of sport. Genes obviously win out with some diseases and whilst I keep an eye on research on different dietary components and recurrence etc, I'll place 99% of my faith in herceptin and tamoxifen. I agree info should be evidence based. Apart from anything else, it prevents unnecessary blame on the disease 'afflicted, and keeps peoples minds open to other factors that really can have an effect. I know one person doesn’t evidence maketh!!………..but…………… Just to say I’m also a dietitian. Last year, at 43 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I lead a blameless existence.loads of fruit and veg, no alcohol, no smoking, slim and do lots of sport. Genes obviously win out with some diseases and whilst I keep an eye on research on different dietary components and recurrence etc, I’ll place 99% of my faith in herceptin and tamoxifen. I agree info should be evidence based. Apart from anything else, it prevents unnecessary blame on the disease ‘afflicted, and keeps peoples minds open to other factors that really can have an effect.

]]> By: Jenna http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-319 Jenna Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:43:53 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-319 No, I don't disagree. You're much better read than I am so I'll take your word for that one. I just wonder where we place our value on food. If you look at the nutrient profile for the poor fuji apple compared to the NRV's, it really doesn't have much to offer. I asked a colleague what's so healthy about an apple. She said "it's fresh". Well, that's not a good enough reason! "...it's got a lot of nutrients". Hardly. "Doesn't it protect against cancer?". Apparently not! Even though we suspect (know?) that fibre can protect against colorectal cancer, we can't show in a large study that more fruit and vegtables assist us to do this. Does that mean we stop telling people about it? When we're asked, do we say 'there's really no evidence for that'? No, I don’t disagree. You’re much better read than I am so I’ll take your word for that one. I just wonder where we place our value on food. If you look at the nutrient profile for the poor fuji apple compared to the NRV’s, it really doesn’t have much to offer. I asked a colleague what’s so healthy about an apple. She said “it’s fresh”. Well, that’s not a good enough reason! “…it’s got a lot of nutrients”. Hardly. “Doesn’t it protect against cancer?”. Apparently not! Even though we suspect (know?) that fibre can protect against colorectal cancer, we can’t show in a large study that more fruit and vegtables assist us to do this. Does that mean we stop telling people about it? When we’re asked, do we say ‘there’s really no evidence for that’?

]]> By: Bill Shrapnel http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-312 Bill Shrapnel Fri, 13 Jul 2012 23:56:51 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-312 Hi Jenna. Fruits and vegetables are rich sources of micronutrients and their intake is associated with lower risk for cardiovascular disease. Do you disagree? Hi Jenna. Fruits and vegetables are rich sources of micronutrients and their intake is associated with lower risk for cardiovascular disease. Do you disagree?

]]> By: Jenna http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-310 Jenna Thu, 12 Jul 2012 10:54:54 +0000 http://scepticalnutritionist.com.au/?p=299#comment-310 Such as...? (I'm not being sarcastic...I really would like to hear) Such as…? (I’m not being sarcastic…I really would like to hear)

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